Could your shop make artillery rounds?

[Trboatworks]

Thank you- this paradigm is a new concept for me.

Yet another sign of my history/political science background lacking required depth.

Edit- vocabulary needs work as well..
I hadn’t tied the term to it’s clear root but quick look clarifies….

https://www.wordsense.eu/bellicism/

 

[standardparts]

AFAIK Ukraine will use those rounds only on in their own territory. No plans to invade russia with uranium guns a blazing(glowing). If those rounds bother the russians so much they could just go home and ignore them.
Bill D

Does Ukraine have an equivalent of U.S. veterans benefits? Might be something for the U.S. to set aside funding for since we are supplying the material in the first place.
"Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to depleted uranium during service"

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.publichealth.va.gov

 

[dcsipo]

Thank you- this paradigm is a new concept for me.

Yet another sign of my history/political science background lacking required depth.

Edit- vocabulary needs work as well..
I hadn’t tied the term to it’s clear root but quick look clarifies….

https://www.wordsense.eu/bellicism/

Ante bellum bellicist theories were not common. But here we go.

 

[dcsipo]

Does Ukraine have an equivalent of U.S. veterans benefits? Might be something for the U.S. to set aside funding for since we are supplying the material in the first place.
"Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to depleted uranium during service"

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.publichealth.va.gov

Are you proposing eating DU or brushing your teeth with DU? Having spilled it all over the countryside may cause it to enter the food supply, but it can be cleaned up fairly safely if it is located. Skin contact with DU is less of a concern than exposure to any anti-tank ammo from the other side.

 

[standardparts]

Are you proposing eating DU or brushing your teeth with DU? Having spilled it all over the countryside may cause it to enter the food supply, but it can be cleaned up fairly safely if it is located. Skin contact with DU is less of a concern than exposure to any anti-tank ammo from the other side.

Only an observation regarding keeping the planet environmentally safe. It's basically nuclear waste being disposed of in the form of a projectile so it's only reasonable to expect the country of origin to show responsibility.
No intention of consuming DU but no doubt that it will be spread not only over agricultural areas but also find it's way into residential areas where children would be exposed about the same as from lead paint which likely means it will be years, if ever, before any clean up is accomplished.
In any event it appears you have no problem with using Ukraine as a test range and are comfortable with the death and destruction that results and that is your right.

 

[Rob F.]

In any event it appears you have no problem with using Ukraine as a test range and are comfortable with the death and destruction that results and that is your right.

Iraq was the test bed for DU with US GI's as well as Iraqi children & civilians. No need to repeat that again.Oh yeah, they think this is different this time since no US GI's are there to get sick so its all A-OK....

 

[dcsipo]

Only an observation regarding keeping the planet environmentally safe. It's basically nuclear waste being disposed of in the form of a projectile so it's only reasonable to expect the country of origin to show responsibility.
No intention of consuming DU but no doubt that it will be spread not only over agricultural areas but also find it's way into residential areas where children would be exposed about the same as from lead paint which likely means it will be years, if ever, before any clean up is accomplished.
In any event it appears you have no problem with using Ukraine as a test range and are comfortable with the death and destruction that results and that is your right.

You guys are material guys . Did you ever look up the uses of U238? It is about 99% of the naturally occurring uranium. You may even have some of it in your mouth . The biggest health risk is from shrapnel. So if it does not fly at high speed or if you do not eat it, it is not worse than lead. I'm not trying to minimize the health risks of any heavy metals, but in a war....well, Balance risk with the number of lives it can save.

238U has the longest half-life of the three isotopes (4.5 billion years), making it the least radioactive isotope and the isotope most likely to cause chemical toxicosis rather than radiation injury. 238U is used for photographic intensifiers, ceramic colorants, dental porcelain additives, radiation shielding, military armor, and armor-piercing bullets. The main source of exposure to uranium is from mining and manufacturing of uranium products. The use of depleted uranium products in military armor and ammunition has resulted in a significant number of military veterans who retain embedded fragments of depleted uranium in their soft tissues due to ammunition or shrapnel wounds; the risk to health of this type of exposure has remained a political hot-button.

 

[standardparts]

Iraq was the test bed for DU with US GI's as well as Iraqi children & civilians. No need to repeat that again.Oh yeah, they think this is different this time since no US GI's are there to get sick so its all A-OK....

In the late 1990s one of the guys at work would appear to be slightly drunk or have some type of medical issue when walking. At some point he became part of the check crew and found out he was a Gulf War vet that, after leaving the service, worked as a civilian contractor doing ordnance cleanup in Kuwait and Iraq. He had a very large photo album showing the type of work and what was involved in the cleanup. Huge area impacted, HUGE cost to deal with it, and workers still got killed or injured cleaning the mess up.
It turned out he took the job where we worked for medical benefits due to issues he felt were a result of contact with expended military ordnance. Had a family with a new kid and he felt his medical prognosis was not good. Would hear from him off later as we moved on and things were not good. The article linked below sort of dovetails with mention and pics of extreme concentrations of certain munitions.
I'm no scientist so won't argue the after effects of any of that shit but fact is the leftovers from WW1, over a 100 years ago, are still a serious problem in Europe especially areas of France.
Also am not cheerleading on either side but have to say I don't agree with the level of U.S. involvement.

Anyway---here's one report, can't vouch that it is accurate or legit, but there are other similar reports if a person really wants to look for it.

https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Effects%20of%20Wars%20and%20the%20Use%20of%20Depleted%20Uranium%20on%20Iraq.pdf

 

[dcsipo]

In the late 1990s one of the guys at work would appear to be slightly drunk or have some type of medical issue when walking. At some point he became part of the check crew and found out he was a Gulf War vet that, after leaving the service, worked as a civilian contractor doing ordnance cleanup in Kuwait and Iraq. He had a very large photo album showing the type of work and what was involved in the cleanup. Huge area impacted, HUGE cost to deal with it, and workers still got killed or injured cleaning the mess up.
It turned out he took the job where we worked for medical benefits due to issues he felt were a result of contact with expended military ordnance. Had a family with a new kid and he felt his medical prognosis was not good. Would hear from him off later as we moved on and things were not good. The article linked below sort of dovetails with mention and pics of extreme concentrations of certain munitions.
I'm no scientist so won't argue the after effects of any of that shit but fact is the leftovers from WW1, over a 100 years ago, are still a serious problem in Europe especially areas of France.
Also am not cheerleading on either side but have to say I don't agree with the level of U.S. involvement.

Anyway---here's one report, can't vouch that it is accurate or legit, but there are other similar reports if a person really wants to look for it.

https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Effects%20of%20Wars%20and%20the%20Use%20of%20Depleted%20Uranium%20on%20Iraq.pdf

The report you quoted does not explain the level of exposure, nor does it correlate with any other environmental causes, the effects of malnutrition, other chemicals introduced as the impact of war, etc. So, while DU might be a contributing factor, it is not the only factor. It just states that cancer rates have increased after 1991. The VA closely tracks the DU exposures of Vets, including the inoperable fragment cases. We did a project supporting the imaging needs of the embedded fragment registry. I no longer have access to the internal data, but I know it is not a large percentage of the VA patient population. In the absence of that, here is some IAEA DU information

Depleted Uranium | IAEA

Uranium (chemical symbol U) is a naturally occurring radioactive element. In its pure form it is a silver-coloured heavy metal, similar to lead, cadmium and tungsten. Like tungsten it is very dense, about 19 grams per cubic centimetre, 70% more dense than lead. It is so dense a small...

www.iaea.org

This is in no way in defense of DU exposures; it is just a level setting for evaluating the use of DU on the battlefield vs. the health risks it causes. If 10,000 rounds of DU armor-piercing ammo ends the war, will it save more lives than the cancer deaths it causes? I guess that is a question that only history can answer.

 

[dcsipo]

You forgot Ukraine. We could claim part of Ukraine too....

But to the point of the imperialistic or the national interests of Russia, I wish to hell people could finally come to a f@cking consensus as to the real cause of the invasion.
Is it to regain rightful territories lost? Denazification? NATO expansion? Protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine? All of the above?

Much simpler than that. Two gaps: Suwalki and Bessarabia. There is a Russian need for both.

 

[Bill D]

putin has claimed that both sides should should withdraw 175 miles from the original boundaries. He called it a sanitation zone. like the DMZ in Korea. Of course he meant only ukraine would withdraw but that is not what he said.
Bill D.
Edit: HIMARS range is 186 miles

 

[dcsipo]

putin has claimed that both sides should should withdraw 175 miles from the original boundaries. He called it a sanitation zone. like the DMZ in Korea. Of course he meant only ukraine would withdraw but that is not what he said.
Bill D.
Edit: HIMARS range is 186 miles

Someone is full of ...why would Ukraine agree?

 

[john.k]

I wonder what Putin has swapped for millions of artillery rounds from NK?.....Nuclear warheads for ICBM?

 

[standardparts]

putin has claimed that both sides should should withdraw 175 miles from the original boundaries. He called it a sanitation zone. like the DMZ in Korea. Of course he meant only ukraine would withdraw but that is not what he said.
Bill D.
Edit: HIMARS range is 186 miles

Havana to Miami -- 90 miles. Remember all the drama over that?

 

[Scottl]

Does Ukraine have an equivalent of U.S. veterans benefits? Might be something for the U.S. to set aside funding for since we are supplying the material in the first place.
"Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to depleted uranium during service"

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.publichealth.va.gov

Wonderful! We can not only spend billions of OUR tax dollars supporting their war but then be on the hook for veteran's benefits and who knows what else.

Bad enough when we accepted Red Army veterans who migrated to the USA into the VA system because "The Russians were our allies in WWII".

 

[Bill D]

Someone is full of ...why would Ukraine agree?

Not like we can't take putin for his word. He negotiated a deal with Prigozhin and he kept his word until the day Prigozhn died, didn't he? Maybe he wavered a little for a the last 30 seconds or so, but still.
Bill D

 

[tim9lives]

If Putin would have succeeded in Ukraine, by now he would be rolling into Poland & the Baltics and saber rattling bullshit about how he'll go nuclear if NATO steps into the fight.
Screw Putin.
America and Western Europe embraced Russia when the wall came down. We took Putin for his word. He played us.
He wants to dominate the world. Europe today.... USA tomorrow.
And Xi of China is in it with him. Communist Authoritarian leaders can not be trusted. They want to destroy the USA. China and Russia have been working to destroy America using capitalism. China has wreaked havoc on the worlds manufacturing base by subsidizing crap and selling to the world. They have put all excess funds into building the second most powerful military.
Putin has used food and oil as a weapon. If he would have succeeded in Ukraine, He'd have almost half of the worlds supply of wheat. I think Russia was the #2 world oil producer. Putin created this inflation we are now having.

 

[magneticanomaly]

On a less-political note, I saw a piece of news claiming that NATO is buying 220,000 155mm rounds for $1,200,000,000. My arithmetic says that is about $6,000 per shot. Is that for real?

What is so expensive in a 155mm artillery round
?

 

[Rob F.]

On a less-political note, I saw a piece of news claiming that NATO is buying 220,000 155mm rounds for $1,200,000,000. My arithmetic says that is about $6,000 per shot. Is that for real?

What is so expensive in a 155mm artillery round
?

They are made by the MIC, so the goal is to charge the gov - read TAXPAYERS- as much as possible for them.

 

[604Pook]

They are made by the MIC, so the goal is to charge the gov - read TAXPAYERS- as much as possible for them.

Pretty sure that’s the goal of all things purchased by the military.

Currently shooting down $10k-20k drones with multi million dollar missiles…