"world's leading chipmaker after the company said the US didn't have the skills to build its new factory"

[standardparts]

Listen to this on the joint venture between GM and Toyota. Toyota workers were all about quality over quantity and GM workers were all about quantity and never stopping the line.

NUMMI (2015) - This American Life

A car plant in Fremont California that might have saved the U.S. car industry.

www.thisamericanlife.org

And Tesla gets the Fremont plant at bargain basement pricing and with assistance from the State of Cali we now have Tesla.

 

[???]

And Tesla gets the Fremont plant at bargain basement pricing and with assistance from the State of Cali we now have Tesla.

And if you listen to the interviews Tesla may be about to experience what GM experienced. From what I understand Tesla is about to go into a joint venture with Toyota to build a sports car. As someone else said this is also a cultural issue.

 

[jaguar36]

From what I understand Tesla is about to go into a joint venture with Toyota to build a sports car.

That'll never happen, Tesla partnered with Toyota on the Rav4 EV a decade ago and it did not go well. They have been adamantly opposed to partnerships with legacy auto makers since. They used to get alot of the interior bits from MB, but have since brought that all in house.

there are almost none.
to quote the industry publication: The U.S. share of global semiconductor manufacturing capacity has decreased from 37% in 1990 to 12% in 2021, according to the Semiconductor Industry Association
And the TMSC plants are the absolute most advanced in the world. They have contracts to buy new machinery from the biggest and best supplier globally (ASML in the Netherlands) going out years in advance.
Again, I have worked on job sites with Union pipefitters. They do things like install sprinkler systems in tall buildings.

I assume you read this article since you are quoting it. So you know how there are a bunch of fabs in work, which means that the folks who build them are in demand, and undoubtedly are wanting to be paid more. At the same time, fab construction in Taiwan has slowed, so I bet its easy to grab some cheap labor from there.
While the US may have 'only' 12% of the world semiconductor market, that is still a huge amount. Its not like Intel brought in workers from Taiwan when it built Fab 42 or Ti when they built RFAB2 last year.

Just because you have worked with some folks in the pipefitters union does not mean there aren't others in the union who are can do the work. Yes, there are a ton of pipefitters who do sprinklers, oil refineries, and HVAC work. But there are also ones who work in far more skilled areas. Its not like the same guys in the UAW who put tires on cars are the same ones who build aircraft and missiles.
Regardless, I'm sure a huge reason they want to bring in foriegn works is so they don't ahve to deal with the union, because while the skill level of the workers may vary tremendously, one thing that is always true is that dealing with a union is hugely expensive and a massive pain.

 

[mrSanders62]

Just because you have worked with some folks in the pipefitters union does not mean there aren't others in the union who are can do the work. Yes, there are a ton of pipefitters who do sprinklers, oil refineries, and HVAC work. But there are also ones who work in far more skilled areas. Its not like the same guys in the UAW who put tires on cars are the same ones who build aircraft and missiles.
Regardless, I'm sure a huge reason they want to bring in foriegn works is so they don't ahve to deal with the union, because while the skill level of the workers may vary tremendously, one thing that is always true is that dealing with a union is hugely expensive and a massive pain.

I think the reason is the same. as they used to take factories to Asia, now workers are brought from Asia. saving

 

[William Payne]

The most dangerous mindset anyway can have is that they are the best at something. Everyone at all times should be of the mindset of what are others doing that I am not doing and what can be learned from it.

 

[standardparts]

That'll never happen, Tesla partnered with Toyota on the Rav4 EV a decade ago and it did not go well. They have been adamantly opposed to partnerships with legacy auto makers since. They used to get alot of the interior bits from MB, but have since brought that all in house.


I assume you read this article since you are quoting it. So you know how there are a bunch of fabs in work, which means that the folks who build them are in demand, and undoubtedly are wanting to be paid more. At the same time, fab construction in Taiwan has slowed, so I bet its easy to grab some cheap labor from there.
While the US may have 'only' 12% of the world semiconductor market, that is still a huge amount. Its not like Intel brought in workers from Taiwan when it built Fab 42 or Ti when they built RFAB2 last year.

Just because you have worked with some folks in the pipefitters union does not mean there aren't others in the union who are can do the work. Yes, there are a ton of pipefitters who do sprinklers, oil refineries, and HVAC work. But there are also ones who work in far more skilled areas. Its not like the same guys in the UAW who put tires on cars are the same ones who build aircraft and missiles.
Regardless, I'm sure a huge reason they want to bring in foriegn works is so they don't ahve to deal with the union, because while the skill level of the workers may vary tremendously, one thing that is always true is that dealing with a union is hugely expensive and a massive pain.

"dealing with a union is hugely expensive and a massive pain"
Part of the problem is a union local usually has one of their own home grown members calling the shots and that person might be in way over his head, lack people skills, and lose sight of the big picture when faced with the challenges of a multi-billion dollar project.
In this case, the fight is over something like 500 jobs in a reported 12,000/20,000 worker environment where the saying "time is money" becomes an epic situation not even taking into account evolving political events, political power changes, and of course keeping the stockholders happy.
For the most part this is Biden's signature project along with a push from Nancy Pelosi so it's time for the administration to send in a heavy hitter with a blank check, hold some off the record closed door meetings with the union and management and come up with a deal to keep the project on track with pics of smiling workers and management......even if they hate each other.
One thing for sure....any overseas company is gonna think twice before getting involved in this sort of bullshit.

 

[Ries]

https://download.intel.com/newsroom/2021/manufacturing/intel-build-fab-infographic.pdf

 

[standardparts]

Another good article (link below) describing the technology required to produce chips.
Lithography machines from a company in the Netherlands.
Specialty chemicals from Japan to support the lithographic/photoengraving process.
Sounds like we have the designing end covered here in the U.S.
Without one of three or four components of the process it's pretty much a no-go(?)

Maybe the U.S. should ramp things up a bit and just have the DOD or similar agency take things over much like they do with a lot of weapons production. After all defense products are said to be American's largest industry.

How Aerospace Can Improve Its Supply Of Semiconductors | Aviation Week Network

Onshoring semiconductor manufacturing could boost supply chain resilience for national security, but it is easier said than done.

aviationweek.com

 

[s.d.nano]

Another good article (link below) describing the technology required to produce chips.
Lithography machines from a company in the Netherlands.
Specialty chemicals from Japan to support the lithographic/photoengraving process.
Sounds like we have the designing end covered here in the U.S.
Without one of three or four components of the process it's pretty much a no-go(?)

Maybe the U.S. should ramp things up a bit and just have the DOD or similar agency take things over much like they do with a lot of weapons production. After all defense products are said to be American's largest industry.

How Aerospace Can Improve Its Supply Of Semiconductors | Aviation Week Network

Onshoring semiconductor manufacturing could boost supply chain resilience for national security, but it is easier said than done.

aviationweek.com

I learned about and did some lab-scale semiconductor fabrication as part of my undergrad.

Extreme UV (basically using soft x-rays as your light source) was something I was told was a year or two away from widespread adoption in 2010 and they finally got it working well in 2019 or so. The point is that it is a such an insanely specialized and difficult engineering challenge it probably isn't worth doing independently (I can take you through the physics if you like, it is super cool, there are no "optics" as you would think since EUV is absorbed strongly by basically everything). Licensing the technology or sponsoring a branch of that dutch company makes more sense.

Photoresists aren't that big of a deal. If memory serves the main PR for EUV is modified PMMA aka plexiglass, don't quote me on that, it has been a while. The Japanese and germans are my go-to for specialty chemicals in my industry but there are american companies that can do it. The chemicals for etching are again domestically available. Generally you are talking about plasma etching with HF which is available and just would need the correct purity (fun fact, my secretary ordered a bottle of nitrogen in semiconductor grade by accident and the cylinder cost $700).

The US can design domestically no problem, semiconductors themselves are essentially an American invention and bell labs are the ones who really got the ball rolling.

The big problem is money and time. The US has the money and probably the time but the question is if the political class has the will to actually solve the problem rather than leaving Taiwan as a justification for military action.

 

[Ries]

Maybe the U.S. should ramp things up a bit and just have the DOD or similar agency take things over much like they do with a lot of weapons production. After all defense products are said to be American's largest industry.

The DOD actually only has full control of the oldest and simplest weapons manufacturing- the recent thread about artillery shells, with its videos of 1950s factories, is a good example. Or, the Red River plant that rehabs 35 year old Humvees.
But all the high tech stuff is done by private companies, and the DOD just checks in once in a while- they dont do design, or engineering, or manufacturing of missiles or submarines, or fighter jets, or aircraft carriers, satellites, or sneaky spyware- its all subcontracted to industry.
And private industry is, indeed, building chip fabs.
But the leading edge tech in this field is still a couple of Dutch companies, and the DOD has no way of legally getting at their IP or research or scientists, aside from buying the machines, and those are already backordered for years out.